"This Crisis On Campus"

COLBY

Fordham President Tania Tetlow is sitting down. She’s on the Upper West Side, in Manhattan. At Fordham’s Lincoln Center campus.

And she’s having a very important conversation. 

It’s April 8th, 2025. 

She’s speaking to student reporters. It’s something the administration does every semester. A press conference of sorts — with reporters from the Fordham Ram, and the Fordham Observer. 

We’re about 20 minutes into the meeting. And one of the editors at The Observer asks a question:

STEVIE

In your most recent email to address the university, you informed and addressed the undergraduate student who had their visa revoked. And the assembly of a working group to work on these issues. What is the status of that working group? And what are they doing?

COLBY

That is Stevie Fusco. She was the Managing Editor at the Observer at this point.

Here’s how Tetlow responds.

TETLOW

So, they started meeting last week. You know, it feels like it’s been months. But all these events are pretty recent. And they are thinking about everything from how to give guidance to International Students, to faculty and other employees here on work visas. Giving that guidance is difficult because there is so much uncertainty that is not within our power to unlock. 

COLBY

It’s just four days after the first student SEVIS record was terminated at Fordham University.

You’ve already heard our reporting on the working group slash tiger team. Which is to say you’re not going to learn a whole lot from Tetlow’s answers on the subject. 

Really, we’re playing this tape to bring you into the moment this visa turmoil started to escalate.

Tetlow is saying there’s a lot of confusion —

TETLOW

— about if international students do not feel comfortable leaving the country, lest they not be allowed back in, whether we can find creative ways for housing. Of what happens if a student loses their visa. We are trying to ensure that the student can complete work online. And it looks like we’re able to do that. Of thinking about providing legal advice for any member of our community facing a situation like this. 

...

And then just issue spotting, of what we’re missing in that list. So, making sure — we have faculty who are international faculty here who are on academic visas who are part of that committee, to help us think about all the ways that they have reason to be very anxious right now. 

COLBY

This is probably the first time a lot of Fordham students are hearing this tape. 

Student press conferences like these are often published in print form. The Ram and The Observer use Tetlow’s quotes in their stories.

But the actual recording of the event isn’t often published. 

I had access to this recording when I worked at the Observer. And I wanted to play it here so that you can hear Tetlow’s own voice talking about all this. 

The next questions come from the Ram reporters who were there. Nora Malone, Allison Schnieder, and Adithi Vimalanathan. 

NORA

In that vein, we heard that the DHS did not contact the University. And I know that the Columbia Spec just posted an article about how Columbia, the university, does routine daily checks on the service — SEVIS. 

TETLOW

Yes.

NORA

To check to see if student’s visas are going well. Does Fordham do the same thing? Is that how they figured it out?

TETLOW

Yes. And you didn’t used to have to do that. Because there was no need to psychically intuit that the government had changed it’s mind about a visa. So, yes. We have been checking every morning. And that’s how we found out.

COLBY

Notice how President Tetlow says visa? In the answer to a question about SEVIS? Again, in the heat of the moment, people didn’t really make a distinction between a visa revocation and a SEVIS termination. 

We are not using those words interchangeably. Because our research has demonstrated to us that there's a pretty big difference between the two. But at that moment, people didn’t really differentiate. Partly, probably, because unilateral SEVIS record terminations had never happened before. 

NORA

And then did the University alert the student? 

TETLOW

Yes. 

ALLISON

So the student wasn’t contacted by DHS either? 

TETLOW

No.

ADITHI

And since, has DHS been in contact and provided a reason for the revocation?

TETLOW

Not that we know of, no. Not to us. And I don’t believe to the student, although I don’t know the last time we talked to him. 

ADITHI

Can I also ask, I know before, previously the DHS would give fourteen days to leave. But now AP is reporting that students are mandated to leave immediately. Is this the case?

TETLOW

We are trying to figure that out. Because DHS hasn’t said anything. And it is unclear. 

COLBY

Just to punctuate that. President Tetlow is emphasizing what we’ve already told you: Fordham had not been contacted by the government about these actions. That is to say: there was no explanation, or guidance about what Fordham, or these students, had to do.

ALLISON

And are you guys in contact with this current student at all? I know you were saying you weren’t sure the last time you talked. But is that like — is the goal, I guess, to be in contact with them?

TETLOW

Yeah, we’re trying to provide as much support as we can. Because it is an unimaginable situation. And we are so upset on his behalf. 

COLBY

And then comes the really important question. 

From Stevie, again, Managing Editor at the Observer.

STEVIE

As of now, is there only one student who has had their visa revoked?

TETLOW

No, this morning we found another. But, I don’t know if we’ve reached that student yet. So, I can’t talk about it with specificity. Because, as you can imagine, the international students have privacy rights that we leave up to them. So, we’re not trying to share too specific details about them. That would be their choice.

COLBY

A second student?

Now, this isn’t an isolated incident. 

Now, there’s more uncertainty coming ahead. 

It was just about 2:20 in the afternoon when President Tetlow said those words: No, this morning, we found another.

The reporters for the Fordham Observer got back to the office just after 3pm. And one of them, Stevie, mentioned the news to me. And I sat straight up.

We have got to put that online, like right now, I told her.

And so we worked up an instagram post and pushed it out.

I’ve checked the metadata on that instagram post recently. 3:49 PM is when it went up.

That’s how a lot of students heard about the second SEVIS termination at Fordham that day. From the information provided at the student press conference. And later published online. 

But in the year since that happened, we uncovered a story of how, that same day, a group of different students got a behind-the-scenes look. They got to see Fordham dealing with this crisis in real time.

By the time President Tetlow told student media this fact, these other students had had multiple, unscheduled meetings with administrators. 

They had already watched this piece of information move through the different levels of the university.

Today, we’re going to rewind the clock and bring you that previously unreported story.

We’ve got a doozy of a chapter here for you. We’re going to tag along with some student activists as they get a rare glimpse into the inner workings of Fordham University.

And we’re going to watch as Fordham staff try to, and sort of don’t, inspire confidence and garner trust. 

And then we’ll end with a lot of different opinions, from a lot of different people about how they were feeling when all this was going down.

Our show today is divided into Three Acts:

Act 1: The protest, at high noon. 

Act 2: Multiple unscheduled meetings, in rapid succession.

And Act 3: With all this new context, we try to answer the question: is Fordham handling this alright?

That’s in a minute. I’m your host Colby McCaskill. 

ELENA

I'm Elena Dimitriou

ARIANNA

I'm Arianna Pinna.

COLBY

You’re listening to REVOKED? - Chapter 3: “This Crisis On Campus.”

COLBY

Okay. We’re rewinding the clock to before the student press conference. To see how this day played out behind the scenes.

Our producer, Elena, takes it from here.

ELENA

Tuesday dawned. April 8th. 

AMAL

I’m pretty sure that was the day that we rallied. 

ELENA

Four days after the first SEVIS termination. 

Four days since the Fordham community got that first email. 

Four days since students heard anything about how Fordham was responding.

AMAL

We held our rally. We had a moment of silence.

ELENA

That’s Amal, by the way. Student activist at Fordham. That’s not her real name. We’ve agreed to not use her real name so she can talk candidly about her activism.

AMAL

We had people talking. Just trying to talk about what we know. Because, again, that was another thing — when something like this is happening, students want to know. They want to know what is going on. Not just the administration has their prayers, and stuff like that. We want to know: is the student okay? What is being done to help the student?

ELENA

Amal and her fellow activists held a rally. A protest. They’re part of Fordham’s Students for Justice in Palestine group. That’s SJP. 

And this protest was way less rowdy than the encampment these students put on the year before. 

Still, it was a protest. It was just outside Fordham’s Lincoln Center campus. And it had two goals. One of them was to speak out against Immigration and Customs Enforcement. That’s ICE. But also —

AMAL

Mainly, it was just for Fordham to do something. Because, at this point, that Monday, I believe. The working group had just met. And no one knew what was going on with the student and what Fordham was offering the student. So we — 

COLBY

Did you think Fordham was doing anything?

AMAL

No. At this point, we just thought they were just, nothing. It was the working group. And then, nothing.

ELENA

But Fordham was doing something. They were checking the SEVIS database daily. And they actually found something just before the protest began.

Another SEVIS record had been terminated.

Fordham Admin told us that: First, staff members in the Office of International Services discovered the second termination. And then they started letting members of the administration know over the next few hours.

So as Admin is trying to figure out what to do, these student protesters are shouting and making their voices heard.

And their message is: take a big public stance. Say you’ll not allow ICE on campus.

And remember: the most public examples of international student arrests were of pro-Palestinian activists.

So these Fordham protesters are also saying: Say you’ll protect students. Students like us.

These protesters are trying to push the University in the way they know how. But not everyone was into that.

RIYA

I think the groups that were doing the pro-Palestinian protests also did a little protest about helping International Students, and kind of saving us, in a way.

ELENA

This is Riya. International Student from India. She was a senior that year. And about that protest —

RIYA

I did not like that. Because we were all so scared. 

...

Protesting about our visa statuses just wasn’t on the radar. Because that’s just digging a deeper hole for ourselves. Because what if one of us was there, and we got into trouble, and that led to an automatic revocation. So, we all steered clear of that. But it just felt like there should have been some consideration. Like, is this necessary?

ELENA

So, she’s kind of feeling the total opposite of Amal and the other protesters! 

For Riya, the visa turmoil wasn’t the time to protest. Like, that’s not going to help international students. If you really wanted to help —

RIYA

I think it just should have been left as it was — and just been a peer-to-peer effort on students’ side.

ELENA

We kind of gestured to this in our first chapter. But when all of this was going down, there was a real split that emerged, silently, invisibly among the Fordham community. 

We’re going to be tracking this split more and more over the next few chapters. But it’s worth highlighting here. 

As this visa turmoil was happening, a lot of the community agreed that it wasn’t good. International students, domestic students, President Tetlow, faculty. All in agreement — this wasn’t good. 

But exactly how to deal with this stuff, that was totally contested. 

Do we stand up and shout like these student activists?

Do we sit quietly in solidarity with our fellow students? 

Is there some other way in between the extremes? 

This kind of split hasn’t been really reported on yet. But it’s growing more and more prominent as time goes on. As the Trump Administration intensifies its immigration crackdown, more and more people at this University have differing opinions about what, if anything, the Fordham community ought to do about it.

And part of the reason there wasn’t a lot of agreement about what to do, was because there wasn’t a lot of information about what had actually been done.

About who had actually been impacted.

COLBY

A few of these students, or maybe most of them, were from China? Did you guys talk about — is that true?

ANNIKA

Ah, that’s really not information I'm comfortable disclosing. Just because we were told over and over and over again that we were not — we should not. I don't actually know the identity.

COLBY

Are you able to tell me where they are from?

CAREY

No, because that’s their business.

ELENA

So just a reminder, Professor Annika Hinze and Professor Carey Kasten were part of the tiger team. 

We encountered this type of hesitation — respect for privacy — a lot during our reporting. 

It even went as far as Mike Trerotola, a top Fordham staff member, not wanting to tell us even the names of other professors on that tiger team.

COLBY

I talked to professor Kasten who is part of that working group. I just want to clarify, you can’t tell me the other names of the people on the working group?

MIKE

If she’s self-identified herself, I feel comfortable talking about her involvement. I would have to ask them. 

COLBY

Gotcha. 

MIKE

I’m sorry. 

COLBY

No, no no. All good. 

MIKE

Because it’s a politically charged issue, I don’t want someone to feel like they’ve been put on the spot, as they’re involvement.

ELENA

But there were so many questions! And so many curious people!

And so that respect for privacy really didn’t help quell the curiosity.

So many people were overwhelmed. So many people were spewing all these questions and your mind is going nuts!

RIYA

I wish I knew more. I feel like they should have told us more about the students who were in danger. Especially International Students. 

KATJA

Talking to colleagues and saying: Who are these students, what can we do?

GUADALUPE

For me, as an international student, for my own utility, I would have liked to know more about the situation. To learn — is there something I can learn from their situation. So that I can prepare myself better — is there something that they did?

KATJA

You know, I appreciated what we heard. Personally, I probably would have appreciated hearing more details. 

ANON

I mean, if they’re anonymous, it’s fine. Just kind of saying why they got revoked would be easier for everyone.

GUADALUPE

Even if there are no reasons, like if the University can’t find a valid reason to why they were deported. Just say there were no reasons.

ELENA

I do want to say, real fast — those last two comments — the idea that student visas were revoked in April — or the idea that students were actually deported. Those are both wrong. 

Admin told us that not one Fordham student was forcibly removed from the country — deported — in the Spring of 2025. 

And, at least in April, they weren’t revocations. 

Remember from chapter 1? These were SEVIS terminations. Something, totally different. And not that much better.

Still, misunderstandings abounded.

COLBY

Did you think the student had gotten deported? 

SOPHIA

Yeah. 

COLBY

Really? 

SOPHIA

It seemed — it sounded that way to me.

ELENA

This is Sophia Skelton. Co-President of the Humanitarian Student Organization on Fordham’s Rose Hill Campus.  

And even for her, confusion reigned.

COLBY

How did it eventually get to the point where you were like: Okay, that didn’t happen?

SOPHIA

Talking to my friends about it. Actually, it took a little while. Because I think they weren’t sure either. Even my friends who are international students, I don’t think it was clear to them.

ELENA

Look, the bottom line is, these miscommunications and misunderstandings — they existed in the first place. 

Students didn’t know what was happening and were desperate for some answers or guidance.  

Admin was in a tricky spot though. They had to balance a rapidly changing situation with a scared Fordham community. 

All the while navigating everything with these vulnerable international students in mind.

ANNIKA

It was really really really highest priority to protect the identity of the students. Right, because they didn’t want to have that identity shared. 

...

But it’s not the University’s job to provide information about the students affected. I think it was really the University’s — if anything I would say it was the University’s obligation to protect their privacy. 

ELENA

Many people told us that privacy concerns were the priority. 

Rabbi Katja Vehlow explained to us how during that semester, she would often find herself—

KATJA

Talking to colleagues and saying: Who are these students, what can we do? And also understanding: The school is taking care of this. And there are privacy concerns. Which I also really value. I don’t like the idea of dragging people into the public, unless they want to. These are our personal lives. These are difficult things that happen. And people have a right to privacy.

ELENA

She was very eager to help in some shape or form. But she ran into the privacy limitations.

KATJA

It could be very practical support. Just, you know, writing an email. Going over. Trying to raise funds, if it’s necessary. For whatever it may be. Just making the offer. Of just saying: You’re not alone in this. You should know that you’re not alone in this. There are a lot of people here that are rooting for you and your status here. And that's selfish. Because that's also, of course, virtue signaling. Of like: Yay. I want to do something. I don't just want to be here.

ELENA

But remember what Mike said? He called this a —

MIKE

— a politically charged issue —

ELENA

The Trump Administration is saying that this visa turmoil is good and necessary. They were turning it into a political cause. And to stand up against the federal government, that can be really scary. 

So it’s this politicization that made this incident teem with fear. 

Both on the students end and, frankly, on admin and faculty’s end too.

And then, of course, there’s laws, and rules, about what Fordham can and can’t disclose about students. 

That’s a real part of this conversation too. 

There are things Fordham isn’t allowed, legally, to share publicly about students without their consent. That’s because of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act. FERPA.

So, there were a lot of things at play. 

Many wanted to help.

Many didn’t know how or what was allowed or too risky. 

Many wanted more details. 

Those student activists who protested outside Fordham’s Lincoln Center campus wanted more details. 

Actually, they wanted details so badly that they decided to hunt them down and find them.

That’s in a second, right after this.

COLBY

Okay, we’ve made it to Act II. We’re staying with these SJP student activists.

Our producer, Arianna, picks it up from here.

ARIANNA

After their protest wraps up, these student activists head inside.

MICHAEL

So, I was there. We were in the lobby, actually, right after the rally.

ARIANNA

This is Michael Magazine again. Student activist. Cares deeply about these issues.

MICHAEL

We stopped by Dineen, we said Hey

ARIANNA

He means Bob Dineen, the director of Fordham Public Safety. That’s like the on-campus security department. Anyways Michael asks Bob:

MICHAEL

What is Public Safety going to do if ICE shows up at an apartment building. First of all, I’ll let you know right now: If there’s no warrant, they’re not getting on campus. 

...

They would not willingly do anything if they didn’t have to do it legally. Put it that way. So, if there was no warrant, you’re not coming on campus — a judge signed warrant. You’re not coming on campus, we’re not going to just give you stuff. It needs to be required to us by law. And then we might challenge it in a court of law. But that was the temp check that they gave us.

ARIANNA

This is actually kind of a significant moment. Fordham had a policy when it comes to cooperating with law enforcement. But a lot of students weren’t aware of it. Yes, there was a webpage on Fordham’s website. But for a fair share of students, it wasn’t really a known stance.

For instance, take Fordham student Regina Chiem:

COLBY

I'm curious, from your recollections, did it seem like there was a very clear policy of whether Fordham would allow ICE on campus? 

REGINA

No. And, I mean, I think it’s really interesting as a Jesuit institution that this is a question that needs to be asked. We are literally affiliated with so many — we literally have a church on campus. And somehow, the idea of that kind of seems contradictory. 

COLBY

I just want to make sure I hear you right. You’re saying it wasn’t clear whether Fordham would stop ICE? 

REGINA

No. 

COLBY

Really?

REGINA

I don’t think it was.

ARIANNA

So, you know, getting a pretty clear answer from the director of Public Safety was a big step for Michael and these other student activists. 

Even so — it didn’t really put Michael at ease.

MICHAEL

There is a public, and then there is a private battle that we have. Particularly at that time, and still to this day with ICE, with the Trump Administration with all that’s happening between college campuses and the Federal Government. 

And the public side of that battle is incredibly important, because we don’t know what you’re saying in private is what you mean, if you don’t stand on it in public. 

Moreover, people that aren’t in those private conversations don’t know what you mean. And so all the international students not currently at Fordham’s campus — that are, for example, an alumni, someone interested in coming for Fordham, or a random person in New York City who might live in or around Fordham’s campus. They don’t know what your stance is, Bro. Like, I don’t know what you want us to tell — if you’re not sending an email about it. If you’re not letting it be known to people. We don’t know what your stance is. Period. That’s end of story. 

If you don’t make a public stance, might as well not have a stance at all. 

ARIANNA

Just to get on the same page, Fordham’s official policy for dealing with law enforcement was — and is — this. Here, I have the page right here.

Okay. This is from Fordham’s website. Quote: “Unless law enforcement officers are responding to a lawful request, Public Safety will not allow them on campus, nor share any student or employee information with them.”

“Law enforcement officers must provide judicial orders or lawfully issued subpoenas, which Fordham’s Office of General Counsel will verify before access to campus property will be granted.”

Anyway, a judge-signed warrant. Lawfully issued subpoenas. That is what ICE would need to arrest a student on Fordham’s campus, according to Public Safety. 

So, I mean, one of Michael’s questions was answered that day. 

It wasn’t exactly what he wanted. 

But it was a start.

So, they get an answer from Public Safety. But they still want more details. 

They start looking for an administrator who could provide some more info. 

And they run into Jenifer Campbell. She’s the Dean of Students at Fordham Lincoln Center.

MICHAEL

Yeah, so we had two conversations with Dean Campbell. The first one was in Argo Tea.

ARIANNA

That’s the old name for a student lounge slash cafe on campus. It was renovated recently. Now, it’s called Saxby’s. Anyways, Michael and Amal had tried her office. 

AMAL

She wasn’t there, we left a note. And then on our way out we saw her. And then we were like: Hey, we were looking for you. And she was like: Okay, let’s sit. And we didn’t go to her office. We sat in Argo, in the Garden Lounge.

...

And she was just like: What’s up?

ARIANNA

Quick side note: We’re still unclear of the exact time of this meeting. We do know it was after the Anti-ICE protest. Which started at noon.

But it’s still hazy on when exactly the Anti-ICE protest ended.

Fordham Admin guessedimated it ended at around 1pm.

Whereas one of the school newspapers, the Fordham Ram, reports it ending around 2pm. 

Either way, it’s probably correct that this first meeting happened before President Tetlow shared they found another SEVIS record termination. 

Anyways, with that context, here’s Michael again.

MICHAEL

And so, we had that convo with Dean Campbell, more so going over about SEVIS.

AMAL

And, you know, we just asked her general information. Did the working group meet yet? What’s going on? Are people checking the system of the student’s visa, and stuff like that? And she was like: Yeah, we have a person checking it. And like: We’re going to meet again soon. We haven’t had a chance because some people were on vacation, whatever.

ARIANNA

But they’re not just asking for details. They’re also pushing for the school to do something. 

MICHAEL

We said we need concrete legal and material support for these students. And we don’t want anymore hollow gestures, like: My Thoughts and Prayers. We need you to actually do something.

ARIANNA

To really understand why President Tetlow’s messaging wasn’t cutting it for these activists, it helps to put yourself in their shoes 

As the semester plays out, pictures and videos from across the country start to show up on social media. 

Viral videos show the sheer power of the federal government’s immigration enforcement. 

Arrests. 

Confrontations. 

These things are physical.

And so these SJP activists are sitting there, in Argo Tea. Having, really, their own version of a student press conference. And they don’t see their school taking reciprocal physical action to protect students. It actually looks like they were doing nothing at all.

And then there’s all this worry floating around. 

Worry that Fordham might actually let — maybe even facilitate — arrests of these affected students.

MICHAEL

One of the initial demands we had was for, one, immediate transparency, regarding the students. Reason being, is we didn’t know how committed Fordham was to defending these students. 

...

And we’re like: Okay, you better be doing something.

ARIANNA

Sit with that for a second. The fear that your school, the institution you call ‘home’, might give up your peers to law enforcement. 

Just like the encampment protest the year before.

And so he wants to know who these students are, so he can try to make sure that ICE doesn’t take them. 

What a position to be in. 

What a feeling to have. 

MICHAEL

Yeah. So, we’re like: We need immediate transparency. We need you to make a public stance that you’re not going to cooperate with ICE or the Department of Homeland Security.

ARIANNA

And here, this is actually a big moment. Because this kind of demand is a central point of tension within this story. 

The question is: How much of a stand should Fordham take?

MICHAEL

They, effectively, go with the stance of: If we don’t make enough noise, we might go under Trump Admin’s radar. That was one of the first things that they were telling us — about the Lighting Rod. They kept bring up the lightning rod. Oh, well, if Fordham says we’re not going to do this, and we’re going to take a stand. We become a lightning rod. 

ARIANNA

Michael did not agree.

MICHAEL

Which — when we heard it, was already like: That’s the dumbest, that has never worked. 

ARIANNA

And they have more questions for Jenifer Campbell.

Now, also, remember: the nuance of this thing being a SEVIS termination at Fordham — not a revocation. Michael and Amal are trying to figure out what needs to be done, and a lot of the information online is about visa revocations. 

So, they think the student needs to leave the country. Like, right now. 

MICHAEL

We were already a week out. There was a chance they now had seven days to pack their shit and go back to wherever they have to go to. Unless they wanted to be detained, taken to El Salvador, Louisiana, wherever at the time ICE was sending people. And Fordham told us at the time: We’re checking SEVIS a lot more than we used to. Before we used to check it a couple times, infrequently. Now we’re checking it consistently.

ARIANNA

And they’re also worried that if Fordham doesn’t help step in fast enough, the student will be arrested, and forced to leave. Deported.

But, you know, they’re leaning in, they’re asking questions. They’re also trying to see if this thing had gotten bigger since the last time they got an update.

MICHAEL

we wanted to know, for sure, one hundred percent certainty, Fordham knew how many student visas were, at the time, revoked. 

We wanted to make sure Fordham knew: Are there any more students right now, whose visas are revoked. If you don’t have an answer for this question, what do you need to do as soon as possible to let these students know that their visas have been revoked — ?

AMAL

She was telling us that no other student had gotten their visa revoked.

ARIANNA

Wait a second. What?

MICHAEL

At the time — at that time — she said: We are unaware that any other student visas are revoked.

ARIANNA

Yeah. There was another student affected. The Office of International Services had found another SEVIS termination. But Jenifer Campbell told these student activists there was only one. Yeah.

AMAL

That was pretty much it. It was very short. We just asked her a couple questions. She gave us her answers based off of what she knew. Or what she thought she knew. 

ARIANNA

So, essentially — on the afternoon of April 8th — around the time when President Tetlow told the student press about the second SEVIS termination — other university staff incorrectly informed student activists.

But that’s not the end of the story.

MICHAEL

So, in the same day, after we left Argo Tea, we got a call saying: Hey, I heard that a couple of SJPs were looking for me.

ARIANNA

They get a call from Vice President of Student Affairs, Michele Burris. 

Michele interacts with these students a lot. She was actually the person who handed out the suspension letters at the encampment the year before. 

She knows these students. They know her. And they’re ready for some answers. 

MICHAEL

We found Dean Campbell by happenstance. But we were really looking for VP Burress, or Tetlow or someone else on Lincoln Center’s campus. She gave us a call saying: Yeah, people have been telling me all day that some of y’all were looking for me.

...

So, we have this meeting. 

ARIANNA

This time with Michele Burris and Jenifer Campbell. It was a lot of the same.

MICHAEL

In essence, that’s what the vibe we got was: Back off, we don’t want to be this Lightning Rod, Lightning Rod, Lightning Rod.

ARIANNA

And still, that wasn’t reassuring. Because —

MICHAEL

we had no way from the students, how much of Fordham saying what they were doing was actually true. 

ARIANNA

But then…

MICHAEL

Here’s the big — excuse my language — here’s the big fucking problem.

ARIANNA

Remember the thing Jenifer Campbell told these students before? There was only one SEVIS termination?

MICHAEL

They walk back that statement, saying we are aware of someone else’s visa might have been revoked. It’s like: Okay, great!

AMAL

What is — why are you not updated? You know? You, Dean of Students, should know.

ARIANNA

Amal explained this story a month or two after it had taken place. And she was still unsure of what exactly had happened.

AMAL

And I really want to know, that day when she told us there was no other student — did she just not have that information? Or was it like: She couldn’t tell us? 

COLBY

Yeah, did she lie to you? 

AMAL

Did she lie to us?

ARIANNA

That’s the big question here. Did Jenifer Campbell lie? Did she know and intentionally mislead?

We did request an interview with Jenifer Campbell a few months ago, through Fordham Admin. And they declined on her behalf.

But they did give us a statement when we reached out again for comments.

Here it is:

FORDHAM ADMIN

The timing of discovering the second SEVIS termination, Dean Campbell’s impromptu discussion with SJP activists, and VP Burris joining the conversation is indicative of how fast the situation was moving. 

Dean Campbell’s learning of the SEVIS termination in real-time should not be perceived as misinformation, dishonestly, or otherwise.

ARIANNA

Regardless, for the student activists, this exchange didn’t build trust.

MICHAEL

And then we find out that’s true in a later email that was sent that was saying: Hey, another student’s visa we’ve been aware of has been revoked.

AMAL

So, it’s like: You don’t know anything. And you’re the dean of students.

MICHAEL

Which, means to me, there’s not a clear, direct line of communication between Dean Campbell and everyone else. Which is concerning that the head of Lincoln Center doesn’t know the same information as other folks. Because this is concerning physical safety, individual safety. That, at that time, was a complete red flag.

ARIANNA

This was April 8th. The very next Tuesday after the first SEVIS termination. 

President Tetlow is sitting with student reporters, and says those words:

TETLOW

No, this morning we found another.

ARIANNA

And at about the same time, SJP activists are having their own mid-afternoon spur-of-the-moment meeting with Admin — as Fordham is, in real time, spreading the update that a second SEVIS record had been terminated.

Most members of the Fordham community didn’t get to see this play out right in front of their noses. 

They saw this stuff play out in a few articles or social media posts by student reporters. Or emails.

Speaking of — the next day, that’s April 9th, 2025, President Tetlow sent another school-wide email about the visa situation. That’s the email Michael referenced earlier. 

And in that message,  Tetlow makes a pretty big jump from when she said “I wish that I could offer you reassurance.” 

That school-wide email, in a minute. Right after this.

COLBY

Welcome back to REVOKED? This is Act III.

When students eventually heard about this second termination, later that night, they felt all kinds of feelings. 

Fordham isn’t a big school. Which made it a little scarier for some students. They wondered if they would be targeted next. 

RIYA

Like, inherent fear. Even though I knew that there was no reason for me to be under the radar. It still just felt like: Oh my God. It might happen. It might happen. I’m a month away. I just want to get done and leave, at this point. 

COLBY

Even if they thought they hadn’t done anything wrong.

ANNIKA

Yeah. I mean, I think it was really — that’s what made the moment scary, is that it seemed, even if you were — I mean, I don’t want to talk about right and wrong in this context at all. But even if, in the eyes of, say, the administration: You were doing everything right. You had your paperwork. You weren’t protesting. You weren’t doing anything. You could still be at risk. I think those — that was the scary moment.

COLBY

The panic of hearing someone have their status changed is one thing. But the unsteadiness of it all, the lack of information, is what kept everyone so alert. 

As these Fordham community members attest: it felt like even the most perfectly-behaved person could be at risk.

GUADALUPE

If you’re then an international student, there are so many more costs that come with relocating, like going to another country to study. And emotional costs in that. There’s a lot of — your security — your support system is so far away. And so to have that be taken away from you arbitrarily — in just like a second — must be really painful. 

COLBY

And that’s the toll that international students are paying. 

Moving to the US is already such a cost, not to even mention tuition. Just bringing all your belongings and traveling is so expensive. 

 Just the idea of these students having to do this all over again is enough to worry them. 

And that last student — she’s from Peru — like she said, your family can’t even be here to support you. 

At this point, for a lot of international students, it was crisis mode.

But then the next day, April 9th, President Tetlow sends out another school-wide email.

It’s a longer email, so we’re not going to read through all of it. But there was a paragraph that stood out to some students. 

We asked a student named AnnaMarie to read it to us. 

ANNAMARIE

As a Catholic university, we believe unabashedly in fundamental human dignity. We know that our diversity is a strength, proof of the glorious creativity of our God who loves us equally. We believe in “welcoming the stranger” as the Gospel commands, remembering that our own school was founded for Irish immigrants. These values are not new for us. They are not trendy or performative. They are religious beliefs of 2,000 years, and we have a constitutional right to embody them.

COLBY

The email is the beginning of a larger theme that we’re going to track over the next few chapters. It’s about the fact that Fordham is a Jesuit Catholic institution. And that carries with it some specific beliefs about immigrants and human dignity.

In our exclusive interview with President Tetlow, she told us a little more:

TETLOW

Well, to talk big picture, International Education is pretty fundamental to the nature of a university, but particularly to a Catholic university. 

A fundamental principle of our church, and, not by coincidence, of the other great religions of the world — by great, I mean big, large, important religions of the world — is to welcome the stranger. We understand that each of us may have a moment of wandering, of being at the mercy of others, and their willingness to help us. And that we are judged not just by how we treat our family and friends, but by people we don't know.

COLBY

And then at a later point in the interview she really nails it in: 

TETLOW

But the idea that somehow being foreign makes you suspect is anathema to our faith.

COLBY

That word she used, “anathema.” It’s an ancient greek word, which was used often by the Catholic Church to mean excommunicated, or cursed. So, what she’s saying is that the Catholic, Jesuit tradition, as she understands it, has no room for xenophobia or anti-foreigner sentiment.

That’s quite striking. Especially because government officials, like Vice President JD Vance, have leveraged Catholicism in the opposite way, using it to justify anti-immigrant policies. 

But how did the Fordham community take this message?

COLBY

This was April 9th. 

CAREY

Yeah. 

COLBY

This is the next week. 

CAREY

Yep. And so this one, I felt really good about. And students didn’t.

COLBY

That’s Carey again. She remembers this day quite well.

CAREY

I did close reading of this in my classes on that day. 

COLBY

So, you’re already familiar. Okay, actually, yeah, so bring me into one of those close readings. So you had a class. And you were like: Okay, guys, we’re going to what? Put it on the board? 

CAREY

I started and I said: Did you read this? And people said [scoff] yes. [Scoff]. And I was like: well tell me why you’re upset. And they thought the University was — I don’t remember exactly. But it was so heavy handed. And it was so mean. And they’re not doing enough. And I was like: Okay, let’s read this.

COLBY

So she spent the entire class period, 1 hour 15 minutes, going through the email line by line with her students. And as the class continued, the parts that students were angry with — 

CAREY

That became harder for them to articulate. So, I’m not sure anybody had read it carefully. Some students hadn’t looked at it. Some had. No one  had read it carefully, and there were trigger points. Whether it was the religious language. They were like [sigh] this is empty. And I was like: Is it? Why would we maybe invoke religious language here? What would the purpose be? We talked about some of those things? We talked about — oh, and so we read this email, and then we read the whole webpage. 

...

Because everyone was so freaked out.

COLBY

This email, also, yeah, linked to a new webpage. It was basically a dedicated place on Fordham’s website where they could put updates about this unfolding turmoil.

Okay, quick tangent real fast. For some international students, the religious framing felt off. Like it was performative. We heard this from a few different people. One of them, from Italy, told us that she felt like Fordham was using religion as a shield, for good PR or something. That Fordham seemed obligated to do it for their image, rather than out of genuine conviction.

Another international student, Lee from China. Told us that it didn’t really feel like the religious values applied to his situation.

LEE

Because, I don’t see China in that paragraph. I mean, it sounds really official. But it doesn’t sound personal. Or I don’t see any connections to me, directly.

COLBY

But Carey saw something different in how Fordham was leveraging its Jesuit identity.

CAREY

I am so grateful that she approaches Jesuit values from a more multi-faith, multi-ethnic, capacious, standpoint. That really is how I feel. I think that the University — I spend a lot of time in Jesuit spaces. And I think that Fordham does a really good job of welcoming its entire community.

COLBY

The campus Rabbi, Katja Vehlow, had no doubt about whether Fordham would stand by these values.

COLBY

Was there a question in your mind — Fordham has these Jesuit values — was there a question in your mind of: Is Fordham going to live up to this? 

KATJA

No. I don’t know why not. I think it happened so quickly. You know, I heard about this. We talked to colleagues. What’s going on? And the emails already came, saying: We’re dealing with this. We’re taking care of this. These are our values. But yeah. 

COLBY

That’s kind of lovely. 

KATJA

It is lovely. I think it was also around the time — you know, Georgetown had made a bunch of pronouncements already. And I was like: Yay! Go Jesuit schools. Good for you.

COLBY

But what does it actually mean to live up to those values in a moment of crisis? And was Fordham doing that? We asked other community members to weigh in.

There was a part of the email that put some students at ease. Here’s Riya, an international student from India, reading that section.

RIYA

At this moment when one (and now a second) of our international students has had their visa revoked without notice nor explanation, we understand that many in our community are feeling vulnerable. Know that we at Fordham will do everything within our power to have your back.

COLBY

She appreciated Tetlow’s message.

RIYA

She clarified on three different levels. Being a Jesuit institute. Being in a big city. Cura Personalis being such a big part of our identity. She really clarified how much she would do to stop that from happening to us, and how protected we were at Fordham.

COLBY

But she also noticed something missing.

RIYA

It kind of just talks about how if we’re in danger, or feel like in threat of ICE, we should contact Public Safety. And then they would put us into contact with the necessary resource. 

But I think it would also have been very helpful if they put in the information of OIS representatives. Because we feel very comfortable with them. They’ve seen us from our first day at Fordham. We meet them on arrival. And most of us build connections with them over the four years. We go to them for so much. Every time we travel we need a document from them. 

So, you know, we have connections with them. And we have a rapport. So, it was just disappointing in that email.

COLBY

You know, that’s a fine position to have. 

We asked Fordham Admin if they had any response. And they told us that Public Safety is actually the best resource for students to utilize, because

FORDHAM ADMIN

Given such immigration emergencies can happen at any hour of the day in various time zones around the world, Fordham’s 24/7 Public Safety was equipped with protocols to immediately connect members of the Fordham community with legal and/or support resources should time-sensitive immigration emergencies arise.

COLBY

So, some students didn’t like the email. They felt like it was nice. But should’ve mentioned the office of international services. Or laid off the religious language. 

But for the faculty members that saw Fordham working from the inside, the University’s response felt genuinely well intentioned. Here’s Annika, who was part of the tiger team:

ANNIKA

I think, frankly, in my experience, or as far as I’ve been exposed to this, I think the group was great, because it was really a way for — even though the group seemed a little hodge podge [laughs] to outsiders, it was really a moment when the University was trying to bring people together who know about this, and could advocate, and was listening and hearing what we were saying to try to help, and figure out ways to help.

COLBY

And to Carey, who was on that team with Annika, it became clear that there was an emerging split between the experience of faculty and of students.

CAREY

In all of this, what people talked about a lot is that seems natural for students to feel at odds with authority. And that that is maybe even encouraged on a college campus. That is a natural way — but what might have felt very frustrating to me in this whole process, is that Fordham wasn’t doing anything but trying to protect its students. And maybe that frustration and anger, if that’s where you’re going, was misplaced. 

COLBY

She relayed to us what she was told Fordham actually had accomplished behind the scenes.

CAREY

No, but Fordham pulled serious strings to get people’s visas back. And to get — I don’t remember all the different announcements that were made. You should talk to Sal Longario in the office of — OIS, I don’t know what it stands for. The Offices of International services, maybe. Sal Longarino.

COLBY

We did reach out, multiple times, to Sal Longarino and the other people from the Office of International Services. 

 But the thing is, unfortunately, Fordham has continued to keep that stuff under wraps. 

Fordham officials told us multiple times that those staff members would not be made available for interviews. 

And so this feeling of being in the dark — that became the experience of a lot of students. They felt they weren’t given enough information.

ANON

Not giving us a reason why the visas were revoked, or not giving us constant updates, even if it’s just for the international student community. I think that just creates more fear. And I feel like if they kept giving updates, and if they kept, I don’t know, taking care of the international community, it would definitely help with the fear that is surrounding all the people.

COLBY

Other students like Sophia felt like Fordham’s slow response time meant something more. 

SOPHIA

I mean, it didn’t make me look at Fordham in a great light, I guess. I was like: Okay, they don’t seem like they care. Or, they’re taking way too long to figure it out.

COLBY

Here’s another student, Regina.

COLBY

Did you feel like Fordham talked enough about this, like was vocal enough about what they were doing?

REGINA

 I don’t think they knew how to be. I mean, I’m just going to keep referencing that email. But I  just think that they were shocked with the situation. And I don’t think they necessarily knew how to bring it to the students. 

Because I think to stay silent on it would be even worse than what they did. But also I think they were very very careful with their words and were teetering the line  between saying too much, and risking their own backs and their own integrity in that. I don’t know. I think it’s just a difficult situation overall. And I think that nobody knew how to handle it well. 

COLBY

Some became increasingly frustrated with the lack of transparency from Fordham. 

Here’s Amal:

AMAL

We don’t want you to send us an email telling us that you’re praying for us. We want you to send us an email with all the information, the full story. 

COLBY

I mean, understandably so. Seeing how everything escalated so quickly at other schools really did send a chilling feeling to the student community.

AMAL

When this whole student visa thing started, it scared a lot of people. Because we’re seeing Columbia down on Broadway. Not too far from us, Right? Just what? 15 minutes on the train? 20 minutes, maybe. Having their own students, ICE coming to their apartments. Being detained in different states. Having to self deport. Like, that’s not a small thing. So, I feel like an open communication would do Fordham better than them trying to protect their image so hard. 

COLBY

So, if you sit with a lot of students, and professors, and listen to their experiences from this period of time, which we did, you’ll see the split continue to widen. 

Admin and faculty felt more confident in Fordham — because they saw more of the behind the scenes work. 

A lot of them have more experience with this place. They’ve been with Fordham a bit longer than students have. 

But for students, the time is more limited, and experience is more opaque. So, students often seemed more skeptical. 

Student activist Michael Magazine had his own take. As he saw it, the split started with the encampment the year before. The protest we covered in Chapter 2.

MICHAEL

The character of Fordham was shown to us when they collaborated with the NYPD to arrest those students. When they put up the tarp, when they had this elaborate plan to oppress students. But had nothing when it comes to the actual support of students. 

So, in our mind, when we’re looking at this, when we’re in these meetings, when we’re figuring out what we need to do. And we know the character of Fordham. But we don’t know what they’re doing currently. 

Because they don’t know the students’ names. They’re not having a public stance. They’re not providing any more details. To us, it is a matter of: We either have to trust you based off a character that we know to be wrong, or presume that you’re not doing it, and have to fill in.

COLBY

For Michael, that was the breaking point.

MICHAEL

That was the divide. That was the split. That was the whole crescendo moment, basically, of this crisis on campus. For a lot of people, myself included — plus the tuition increases — led me to just leave Fordham. 

Because I couldn’t trust the character of Fordham. I didn’t want to be part of a University that not only was going to keep asking me for money. But was going to expect the student body and community to have faith in a character that they’ve shown to be crooked.  

COLBY

But as the crisis unfolded, a more general tension arose. Not necessarily rooted just in the encampment. But between the fundamentally different desires of all the different campus constituencies. 

Between what the university could do, what it said it was doing, and what students wanted it to do. 

Some saw Fordham rising to the occasion. Others saw a failure of transparency and trust. And that gap would only widen in the days to come.

This split didn’t begin on April 8th. It’s an intrinsic part of a University setting: students have different experiences than professors and administration. 

But in the spring 2025 semester, where there were so few answers, emotions are running hot, and students are scared, that divide deepend. 

Over the next few chapters we’re going to be telling you more about some of the big questions this university was wrestling — and still is wrestling with. Questions about the role of a university that’s situated in the middle of a city. Questions about the role of a professedly Jesuit school. 

That’s actually what we’re tackling next chapter. What is Fordham, a professedly Jesuit school, supposed to do in a political moment like this? Especially in a time when a historic church tradition, providing Sanctuary, might be needed.

But that’s next time, on REVOKED?